Wednesday, September 2, 2009

Health Care (Mental Variety)

The ongoing hammering of Megan McArdle by John Holbo attracts a very funny libertarian called Albert Jensen in comments.

63 comments:

ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said...

“Mr. Holbo’s answer is that I am an evil idiot who hates poor people, doesn’t understand how markets and governments really work, and is philosophically incoherent.” Only that last one, if you please.

I'd go with the whole ball of wax, there, meself.
~

Another Kiwi said...

Libertarians are the new black people in the alternative universe where black people rule but they are still slaves.

herr doktor bimler said...

Is this the thread that LGM described as "like watching a puppy being hit by a truck"? I refuse to check. Mr Substance speaks of very funny libertarian, but not everyone shares his values of "funny".

Substance McGravitas said...

Is this the thread that LGM described as "like watching a puppy being hit by a truck"?

No, this one's backing up and reversing to make sure the job's done.

9 said...

Libertarians may have issues, but they're nothin' compared to Holblo issues (holy bloviation batman!). Holblo at times engages in his liberal schtick, probably in hopes of appeasing the CT comrades, but at heart-- or, gut-- he's as much a frat boy libertarian as Jensen--and Jensen however crass he may seem to the CTsters, actually has a point re the lack of any justification for rights, apart from self-interest. Fairly standard Hobbesian view (has Holblo read Hobbes-blo? un f-n likely). You could try to persuade people health care is a right, life liberty, etc, (and I don't completely disagree) but providing some necessary argument for it is another matter.

. . Note that Holblo really never addresses any specifics of US health care, private vs public, medicare corruption, competition, costs, etc. It's mainly an exercise in his cheesy informal logic. slippery slope! Dee-eep. Even the KOS sluts sling the health-care hype a bit more effectively than Gord-blo here.


Holblo's the chief wheezebag of cyber-philosophasters--then CT sort of Wheezebag Central, one reason SubbyMc hangs there, presumably.

herr doktor bimler said...

Nor does Holbo address the super apes on the moon issue.

mikey said...

There once was a frat boy named Hol-blow
A Libertarian Wheezebag don't you know
Though he came from Connecticut
He fumbled the etiquette
So instead of Poi he ate crow-blow

Substance McGravitas said...

Jensen however crass he may seem to the CTsters, actually has a point re the lack of any justification for rights

In fact that is not Jensen's position at all.

Enjoy your rimming!

Another Kiwi said...

Nor does Holbo address the super apes on the moon issue.
No one will address the 500 pound gorilla in the room, er on the moon.

9 said...

yr the rim dude Subby McG. Sort of kiwi WASP specialty.


jensen said he has no obligations to pay for health care (or, really, to help starving poor folks on the street). a bit deep, but then logic's not yr strong suit. spam is, s-mc. There are other issues, but in terms of funding public h-c, jensen has a point. Not my problem---we might contract something, or not, say in a hypothetical Rawlsville--- but let em fend for themselves.

Anyway, instead of yr usual NAMBLA spam, let's here your argument WHY we must support a public option (and the taxes to pay for it).

Substance McGravitas said...

jensen said he has no obligations to pay for health care

Sure. But that's not what you said.

ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®© said...

Anyway, instead of yr usual NAMBLA spam, let's here your argument WHY we must support a public option (and the taxes to pay for it).

Because it works better.

And because that's what we voted for.
~

Another Kiwi said...

Durned Vespula vulgaris. Narrow wasted hymenoptera.

J said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
herr doktor bimler said...

No one will address the 500 pound gorilla
I see no gorilla.

9 said...

that's what I said--no obligations, merely self-interest based. The CT gals probably all have some comfy academic plans anyway, and would unlikely exchange that for Medicare. Like most lib-rawls the CTsters just want to stick it to some whiteys out in the heartland-- make them line up with some obese welfare mamacitas and junkies or something at the clinics.

Anyway, given yr own secularist, Darwinist assumptions, who cares? You're PC nannycrats arguing for h-c one day, and Canberra leather-men the next. I think you just want the state run death panels

Whoop

Substance McGravitas said...

that's what I said--no obligations, merely self-interest based.

No.

Anyway, given yr own secularist, Darwinist assumptions, who cares?

You!

J— said...

I am a secular, Darwinist, Jewish frat-boy, and I am scared.

Another Kiwi said...

Gorillas in our midst With each eye fixation, we experience a richly detailed visual world
unless you've opted for the government issue eyes which just show black and white bars representing shapes.

9 said...

No, you misread it. Jensen avoided the little PC normativity game and pathos, and that freaked out the CT nannycrats, including Subby McG. No one really countered his point. No obligations means no obligations.

Anyway like you, Holblo doesn't really argue anything either, just blathers on sentimentally. What's more the h-c hypemeisters generally forget that medicare, or any public option will be a windfall for corporate America. They will save millions by not having to cover their employees' premiums. The naive quasi-socialists have yet to grasp that. Even some conservative business types want the govt. to cover for it (and the taxpayers).

Substance McGravitas said...

No, you misread it.

Nah.

Technical question: why do you insist on 9 rather than J?

J— said...

Which state is PC? Pout Carolina?

9 said...

In fact, you did. Jensen merely brings up standard issue ethical-subjectivism points--like, no obligations--and the CT nannycrats couldn't handle it (even though they don't believe in ethical objectivity anyway). Lemmings

Maybe you can get a pic of jensen, and make him into a pinada or-- the tutu and jackboots! Take that, nazi-libertarian

mikey said...

Hey, hang on. I'm with Plan 9.

Let's stick it to the man by making those corporate fratboys (especially the ones at GOOGLE) pay our rising health care costs.

That'll show the fuckers, dammit

Substance McGravitas said...

In fact, you did.

Nope.

Substance McGravitas said...

Hey, hang on. I'm with Plan 9.

Digits vs. Letters.

The digits are outnumbered of course.

Another Kiwi said...

I'm just saying that plan 9 is from outer space and is probably connected with space apes.
My Gramma had a nanny cat and a very nice old thing it was, unless one was a mouse of course.

9 said...

You saw a reference to Hobbes and thought I was arguing for a right? Nyet. Hobbes doesn't argue for rights. He argues for people agreeing to certain contracts (even health, of some sort) merely from the POV of self-interest, as Jensen suggested (saying it's not in his interests). So, you were wrong.

That's right, mikey. The corps and execs should pay, given that the system's not set up for some utopian public h-c option.

Substance McGravitas said...

You saw a reference to Hobbes and thought I was arguing for a right? Nyet. Hobbes doesn't argue for rights. He argues for people agreeing to certain contracts (even health, of some sort) merely from the POV of self-interest, as Jensen suggested (saying it's not in his interests). So, you were wrong.

I thought none of that. So I gather you are wrong.

9 said...

that's Nine, as in like

gat-size (tho' don't get any ideas Subby McDungeon slave).

Substance McGravitas said...

Again, though, why a word-for-word repost as 9 after the same thing from J?

Substance McGravitas said...

I figured it was "nein" but oh well.

9 said...

No, you're wrong.


You either claim Jensen's correct (there are no health care rights), or he ain't, and there are such rights. Or you just chant.

You're a closet-Jensen, S-McG

J— said...

Stupid, stupid!

9 said...

Not sure: J must be a copycat of some sort. He recognizes excellence when he sees it at least, unlike you, Subby McJensen.

Substance McGravitas said...

You either claim Jensen's correct (there are no health care rights), or he ain't, and there are such rights.

Good god you're the king of the misread.

9 said...

You misread it.

What do you think Jensen was sayng? You don't even know what libertarianism is, SubbyMcJensen,or you would realize you fall in that political class as well.

Substance McGravitas said...

First, point me to what I have claimed about Albert Jensen.

ckc (not kc) said...

...is this where I come to talk about mental health problems?

[verification word: "gilti" - now I am worried!]

mikey said...

Gnat size?

Your gnat is a NINE?

Damn, I bet he can kick some super ape ass...

Substance McGravitas said...

...is this where I come to talk about mental health problems?

Oh man. Some sort of acronym or emoticon is appropriate here.

tigris said...

YEAH, WELL I DON'T THINK HE'S ALL THAT FUNNY.

herr doktor bimler said...

You're a closet-Jensen, S-McG

Wikipedia informs me that
"Jansenism's supporters suffered a decisive defeat when Innocent X issued the bull Cum occasione"
So I don't blame SMcG for preferring to remain in the closet.
The rest of the Wiki article goes into too much detail about the Semipelagian heresy for my tastes, broad-minded though I am.

Substance McGravitas said...

Hmmm...might be wiser to believe in a right than not...kind of a gamble though...

ckc (not kc) said...

..yeah, well, I've issued some bull myself - "cum occasione" - as it were. And I don't need to hear about your testes.

ckc (not kc) said...

surreptiously stalking

on tippy-toes, likely

ckc (not kc) said...

Well, now ... that's awkward. What about my property rights to humor? (Earned through my own carefully, and conservatively, applied wit).

Substance McGravitas said...

Sorry about that.

9 said...

that's, surreptitiously.

AS in surreptitiously destroying your network...

Hey it's all good. McSubby's just engaging in his conservative-fetish . He can't be a Jensen, but can sort of play-act one online

Substance McGravitas said...

I just get the feeling that 9 exists for legal reasons.

ckc (not kc) said...

No DNR order?

J— said...

Don't forget the Albijensen Crusade, during which people would stand up and say, "I'll be Jensen," and then Innocent III would whack them down.

mikey said...

Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

Just sayin...

There is absolutely no need to drop trous

herr doktor bimler said...

No DNR order?

You are thinking of the Australian national anthem:

Restraining order, restraining order
He took out a restraining order on me
And she sat as she stood there,
waiting while the bunny boiled
He took out a restraining order on me.

mikey said...

Herr Dok, shouldn't there be something in there about Bill's Bong?

ckc (not kc) said...

you try stuffing a jumbuck in your tuckerbag... (it's why they do it out back)

Another Kiwi said...

I would warn against the Greater Jumbuk. The Lesser Spotted Jumbuk can usually be put into a tuckerbag with some effort and Di-ethyl ether.

mikey said...

Me?

I like me some righteous quandong.

I like to pick it out of Emu droppings.

Of course, I don't have a job so I have more limited options...

Another Kiwi said...

Quandong, why not a quan...oh fuck. I better look that up.

ckc (not kc) said...

...righteous quandong

...washed down with kopi luwak coffee. [Speaking of picking.]

...a whole new field - coprocuisine

Substance McGravitas said...

...washed down with kopi luwak coffee.

And not out?

fish said...

...is this where I come to talk about mental health problems?

No this is insults. Mental health is down the hall, just past arguments and blows to the head.

Another Kiwi said...

Good heavens, we can talk about mental health problems here. In a laughy, pointy, schoolboy sort of way. Pfnar pfnar is the accepted term of reference.