tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post6372108504364916260..comments2023-04-22T12:32:24.799-07:00Comments on The House of Substance: The Diagnosis: COMMUNISM!Substance McGravitashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04118764163822188800noreply@blogger.comBlogger102125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-64871414730822722732010-07-11T08:20:52.758-07:002010-07-11T08:20:52.758-07:00Considering that these monsters never stop, even w...<i>Considering that these monsters never stop, even when they're caught and that most of them have multiple victims, it gets pretty high.</i><br /><br />Which makes the 25% stat that much more useless for your purpose: one doctor is a tiny percentage of all doctors, but if he sexually exploits multiple patients who over time move on to other doctors, you now have a potentially much larger percentage of innocent doctors treating at least one patient who'd been exploited by one single doctor. You just can't tell the number of doctors who originally did the exploiting based on the number of doctors who later treat an exploited patient.<br /><br />In the studies I directly quoted above, which you can find by googling those quotes, and numerous others you'll find on those searches, clergy in all denominations are found to sexually exploit at a rate roughly twice that of other professions. One would therefore expect greater coverage in the press, but frankly I think the press loves sordid sex tales and bringing down the powerful no matter who they are, and certainly regardless of the sexual exploiter's opinion of abortion, otherwise I would know far less about about Bill Clinton's penis, Elliot Spitzer's proclivities, etc.tigrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-10804520027900159232010-07-11T00:55:38.977-07:002010-07-11T00:55:38.977-07:00Look, if you have a reasonable argument, I'd b...<i>Look, if you have a reasonable argument, I'd be glad to entertain it</i><br /><br />No, no, you are unclear on the concept here, Tancred. Evidently you enjoy spouting provocative and jawdroppingly-stupid assertions, while Substance McG (and the commenters) enjoy pointing at those assertions and laughing. So it is a win-win situation. It might spoil everything if the two of you swapped roles.Smut Clydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409476490132867809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-42675672708412093722010-07-10T15:54:29.507-07:002010-07-10T15:54:29.507-07:00the Catholic Church suffers from the same ills as ...<i>the Catholic Church suffers from the same ills as the society around her</i><br /><br />Then its existence serves no purpose.Smut Clydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409476490132867809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-10159399351282596682010-07-10T11:36:49.962-07:002010-07-10T11:36:49.962-07:00If those laws don't exist
Well, you name an i...<i>If those laws don't exist</i><br /><br />Well, you name an immutable law of god and we'll see if it exists as authored by god.Substance McGravitashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04118764163822188800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-11271541275167716012010-07-10T11:34:57.082-07:002010-07-10T11:34:57.082-07:00But it doesn't, surely you see that. We don...<i>But it doesn't, surely you see that. We don't even know how many patients were exploited beyond the bare minimum of one per doctor responding yes, and we can't tell how many doctors were exploiting at all, as sexual exploiters tend to do it more than once in their career.</i><br /><br />Ok, but we're just looking for a raw number of perps. <br /><br />Considering that these monsters never stop, even when they're caught and that most of them have multiple victims, it gets pretty high.<br /><br />I'm just talking about the population of actual pervs.<br /><br />I saw a stat while I was reading last night which indicated that 60% of women who go to MHW's report receiving sexual advances.<br /><br />Interestingly, the one dude out in California who'd molested 35 kids that we know of was doing this for YEARS. He definitely had people covering for him.Tancredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015531337154301560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-55527412048224805312010-07-10T11:31:06.219-07:002010-07-10T11:31:06.219-07:00If we take the stats just for England, it indicate...<i>If we take the stats just for England, it indicates a rate at least as high as that for priestly abusers, but is probably much higher</i><br /><br />But it doesn't, surely you see that. We don't even know how many patients were exploited beyond the bare minimum of one per doctor responding yes, and we can't tell how many doctors were exploiting at all, as sexual exploiters tend to do it more than once in their career.tigrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-31134418009679604992010-07-10T11:30:28.628-07:002010-07-10T11:30:28.628-07:00I was referring to "immutable laws handed dow...<i>I was referring to "immutable laws handed down by god" but there are very few people who believe in those who are Christian.<br /><br />Tancred here is some news: your sky fairy does not exist and justifying the survival of an organization that protects serial child-rapists on the basis of low abuse rates is therefore perverse.</i><br /><br />If those laws don't exist, then your abhorrence of adults using children sexually is a pretense.<br /><br />Indeed, the German Greens are pushing for sex with kids, maybe your kids, anybody's kids...<br /><br />And so is the Democratic Party USATancredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015531337154301560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-14271202465188624002010-07-10T11:25:15.130-07:002010-07-10T11:25:15.130-07:00There aren't any of whom?
I was referring to ...<i>There aren't any of whom?</i><br /><br />I was referring to "immutable laws handed down by god" but there are very few people who believe in those who are Christian.<br /><br />Tancred here is some news: your sky fairy does not exist and justifying the survival of an organization that protects serial child-rapists on the basis of low abuse rates is therefore perverse.Substance McGravitashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04118764163822188800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-51987441020941608962010-07-10T11:22:46.345-07:002010-07-10T11:22:46.345-07:00When's Cardinal Law's next vacation to Bos...<i>When's Cardinal Law's next vacation to Boston?</i><br /><br />Caredinal Law is nothing compared to Cardinal Mahony, Cardinal Bernardin +1997, Archbishop Weakland or now, Cardinal Daneels!<br /><br />Have you guys seen the Belgian Catechism yet? It was pretty horrific. That is absolutely NOT what the Catholic Church teaches, but they did have a lot of help from local psychology professionals.<br /><br />See, if the Church goes away, so do taboos against adults having sex with children.Tancredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015531337154301560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-3826857963287770282010-07-10T11:19:51.273-07:002010-07-10T11:19:51.273-07:00Tancred, there aren't any of those. Which is w...<i>Tancred, there aren't any of those. Which is why abuse by priests is so disgusting. It's in the service of nothing.<br /><br />And once again you avoid the issue: if the "Mental Health Field" should be shut down, then so should the church.</i><br /><br />There aren't any of whom? People who don't believe in God who practice Psychology and Psychiatry? I'd say the overwhelming majority of them are atheists or agnostics who have a utilitarian view of morality.<br /><br />You're assuming the antecedent there, that the Catholic Church is an erroneous, corrupt organization.<br /><br />I would think it was obvious that it was beneficial, but that would take a history lesson, and is apart from my original point that the Catholic Church suffers from the same ills as the society around her, especially when so many of Her ministers turn their backs on what the Church really teaching, shouldn't be suprising that if you want to be 'open to the world' that you're going to have the same ills the world has, but all that notwisthanding, the Catholic Church, as liberal as she's become in so many areas is still a lot safer place to put your kids than in Public Schools, Psychologist's offices or at the Police Precinct....Tancredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015531337154301560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-73817113422167826862010-07-10T11:18:29.965-07:002010-07-10T11:18:29.965-07:00Is it safe to assume that if we were to look at ho...<i>Is it safe to assume that if we were to look at how many psychologists were actually caught, we'd have a significantly higher number of child molesters than we find in the Catholic Church.</i><br /><br />Again, if you're arguing that one field should be shut down, so should the other. And in the case of the church we have ample evidence that authorities including the current pope were covering up crimes. <br /><br />When's Cardinal Law's next vacation to Boston?Substance McGravitashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04118764163822188800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-59161707519679914852010-07-10T11:15:43.730-07:002010-07-10T11:15:43.730-07:00Your source doesn't say 25% of therapists sexu...<i>Your source doesn't say 25% of therapists sexually abused patients, it says 25% of therapists in the UK reported "having treated a patient" who'd been in a sexual relationship with a therapist - totally inappropriate, but we can't discover anything about the number of therapists who abuse from that. Also, FWIW, if you feel the possible biases of sources should be taken into account, you should look at CCHR more deeply.</i><br /><br />The British Study was only cited by CCHR, but you definitely have a point there.<br /><br />The anecdotal evidence I cited is really scary and it shows there's a definite problem with sexual abuse of minors in the MHC Field.<br /><br />If we take the stats just for England, it indicates a rate at least as high as that for priestly abusers, but is probably much higher, and as soon as I find a study which details it out, I'll let you know.Tancredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015531337154301560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-72005693017982040392010-07-10T11:11:08.037-07:002010-07-10T11:11:08.037-07:00In any event, 1 in 20 of those who admit to having...In any event, 1 in 20 of those who admit to having sex with their patients admit to having sex with minors. <br /><br />Hmm, that's a lot of people. It's about 1.25% of people who admit to having sex with children, but not caught, assuming the accuracy of the English sample.<br /><br />For Catholic Priests it's around 1.5-1.8 according to this:<br /><br /><i>According to a survey by the Washington Post, over the last four decades, less than 1.5 percent of the estimated 60,000 or more men who have served in the Catholic clergy have been accused of child sexual abuse.[iv] According to a survey by the New York Times, 1.8 percent of all priests ordained from 1950 to 2001 have been accused of child sexual abuse.[v] Thomas Kane, author of Priests are People Too, estimates that between 1 and 1.5 percent of priests have had charges made against them.[vi] Of contemporary priests, the Associated Press found that approximately two-thirds of 1 percent of priests have charges pending against them.[vii]</i><br /><br />http://www.catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm<br /><br />And those are the priests who get caught.<br /><br />Is it safe to assume that if we were to look at how many psychologists were actually caught, we'd have a significantly higher number of child molesters than we find in the Catholic Church.<br /><br />Another factor you'd have to look at too is that sex abuse by Catholic priests is significantly down since the 80s when it was first being perceived as a problem.Tancredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015531337154301560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-18749519213591887792010-07-10T11:00:15.684-07:002010-07-10T11:00:15.684-07:00Your source doesn't say 25% of therapists sexu...Your source doesn't say 25% of therapists sexually abused patients, it says 25% of therapists in the UK reported "having treated a patient" who'd been in a sexual relationship with a therapist - totally inappropriate, but we can't discover anything about the number of therapists who abuse from that. Also, FWIW, if you feel the possible biases of sources should be taken into account, you should look at CCHR more deeply.tigrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-53444859346869513572010-07-10T10:56:36.939-07:002010-07-10T10:56:36.939-07:00People who don't believe in immutable moral la...<i>People who don't believe in immutable moral laws handed down by God don't care that much when nobody is looking.</i><br /><br />Tancred, there aren't any of those. Which is why abuse by priests is so disgusting. It's in the service of nothing.<br /><br />And once again you avoid the issue: if the "Mental Health Field" should be shut down, then so should the church.Substance McGravitashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04118764163822188800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-13662038905896845682010-07-10T10:48:06.405-07:002010-07-10T10:48:06.405-07:00One thing that's pretty interesting is that de...One thing that's pretty interesting is that despite how common sex abuse by therapists is, there isn't a whole lot of literature out there. Of course, there's literature out there with numbers, and I know you're not going to like them when I cite them.<br /><br />I know that mental healthcare workers are more prone to this, by the nature of the kinds of people who engage in its practice.<br /><br />People who don't believe in immutable moral laws handed down by God don't care that much when nobody is looking.<br /><br />You can't seem to get the fact in your head that the Catholic Church isn't the problem here, the erroneous ideas in peoples' heads are the problem, and while the Healthcare Profession doesn't have these hard and fast rules, they've also conceived the liceity of therapists having sexual intercourse with their clients or patients. No where does the Catholic Church promote this.<br /><br />Point is, without the Catholic Church, you probably wouldn't have much abhorrence of adults having sex with minors.Tancredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015531337154301560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-21862804817401984862010-07-10T10:35:46.407-07:002010-07-10T10:35:46.407-07:00Tancred, you just can't do math. You quoted a...Tancred, you just can't do math. You quoted a different number above, but when you find a bigger number you'll go with it. That's not to mention that "the number you have" likely doesn't correlate to numbers people actually take seriously when tabulating abuse by priests, which at the very least is comparable to abuse at the hands of therapists.<br /><br />So, if you think abuse by psychotherapists is reason for the mental health profession to be shut down - and you obviously have personal reasons for that - you'll have to allow that the same reasoning demands closure of the Catholic church.<br /><br />It's not like there aren't other churches around.Substance McGravitashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04118764163822188800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-47339375108049501862010-07-10T10:26:33.677-07:002010-07-10T10:26:33.677-07:00They don't have a large organization behind th...<i>They don't have a large organization behind them that wants them to get away with molesting. That'd be the Catholic church in the case we're discussing.</i><br /><br />Actually, they do. Of the 25% that ADMIT to having sex with their patients, one in 20 are children, which outstrips the numbers I have for priests considerably. And we're talking about people who ADMIT to it.<br /><br />You're also wrong about a big organization backing the coverup. The entire Mental Health Field works to cover it up and you touched on part of that yourself, where they have managed to get sex abuse with their adult patients (which really constitutes rape) categorized as rape.Tancredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015531337154301560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-45907755270447978942010-07-10T10:18:29.770-07:002010-07-10T10:18:29.770-07:00Sex Abuse in Mental Health looks like it's far...<i>Sex Abuse in Mental Health looks like it's far worse than in the Catholic Church, I'm sorry to say.</i><br /><br />No, it actually doesn't. If you follow the link you supplied you'll find that the anecdotes about therapists refer to folks who are arrested, jailed et cetera.<br /><br />They don't have a large organization behind them that wants them to get away with molesting. That'd be the Catholic church in the case we're discussing.Substance McGravitashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04118764163822188800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-79412412161778799242010-07-10T10:13:33.758-07:002010-07-10T10:13:33.758-07:00Sex Abuse in Mental Health looks like it's far...Sex Abuse in Mental Health looks like it's far worse than in the Catholic Church, I'm sorry to say.<br /><br />It's interesting how the accounts of the psychologist predators are similar to the liberal priests. They always portray their sexual abuse as an up to date therapeutic approach.<br /><br />The Catholic Church has never condoned this approach to dealing with traumatized persons, but the Psychological field has, on a number of occasions, publicly advocated such treatments privately and in public.<br /><br />Funny that.<br /><br />But I can't expect a partisan like you to look at the facts.<br /><br />See, if the Catholic Church weren't in the picture, you'd still have sexual abuse of children.<br /><br />Ancient Greece didn't have any Catholics in it, but the sexual abuse of children was almost universally tolerated if not memorialized.Tancredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015531337154301560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-79104522225655267092010-07-10T10:05:46.664-07:002010-07-10T10:05:46.664-07:00You can find everything in the Catholic church. Yo...You can find everything in the Catholic church. You can find fraud, lies deceit, sexual depravity and coverups. You can find everything, perhaps, except God.<br /><br />Boy, this is easy.Substance McGravitashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04118764163822188800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-66521152624624820122010-07-10T09:49:22.265-07:002010-07-10T09:49:22.265-07:00All of the REAL commies I've met in my whole l...<i>All of the REAL commies I've met in my whole life (um, except for the ones I killed, but c'mon, that really wasn't MY idea) seemed like fine, righteous humans who's country believed in a different political/economic theory. Plus, they had the advantage of coming from a REALLY attractive group...</i><br /><br />You mean like Kim Philby?<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_PhilbyTancredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015531337154301560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-28984026135612881982010-07-10T09:47:30.943-07:002010-07-10T09:47:30.943-07:00You can find everything in the Mental Health field...You can find everything in the Mental Health field. You can find fraud, lies deceit, sexual depravity and coverups. You can find everything, perhaps, except Mental Health.<br /><br /><br />http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2010/07/sexual-abuse-by-mental-healthcare.htmlTancredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16015531337154301560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-3878708087431375432010-07-09T18:08:16.642-07:002010-07-09T18:08:16.642-07:00All of the REAL commies I've met in my whole l...All of the REAL commies I've met in my whole life (um, except for the ones I killed, but c'mon, that really wasn't MY idea) seemed like fine, righteous humans who's country believed in a different political/economic theory. Plus, they had the advantage of coming from a REALLY attractive group...mikeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13057701313718589322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2438801388377581634.post-3098541484446959002010-07-09T03:01:46.559-07:002010-07-09T03:01:46.559-07:00that he was concerned about the problem long befor...<i>that he was concerned about the problem long before many other people were, indicates to me a certain complicity, either witting or unwitting in the entire thing.<br /><br />ACLU, Soviet style, purge</i><br /><br />This being a blog devoted to irony and snark, I hate to question a fellow-commenter's sincerity, but it's hard to see any reason for making nutty Bizarro-world statements like that except to wind us up in the hope of sparking a vehement response.Smut Clydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09409476490132867809noreply@blogger.com